Joe Mullaney, part of the history of Villanova basketball, and Maddy Siegrist’s path

“We could probably use another kid up front if we can get involved with somebody.”

Imagine if this conversation never took place, from Villanova women’s assistant Joe Mullaney to his then-boss, Harry Perretta. The words should go down in Wildcats history. At that point, Perretta had thought his ‘Nova roster had enough forwards. But, sure, Perretta said, if there was somebody out there.

A week later, the phone rings. “This girl Maddy Siegrist, I’m telling you, if you get involved, you’d have a shot.”

A prophetic thought from a former Villanova assistant, Heather Vulin, who had targeted Siegrist as Manhattan’s top recruit. But Manhattan was out. Villanova got in.

» READ MORE: Why no whining is allowed in Denise Dillon's program

The man who started that ball rolling is still on Villanova’s bench, just stays under the radar. Mullaney is fine with that, even in his 27th season on Villanova’s bench, as Perretta’s longtime consigliere and defensive coordinator, and now Denise Dillon’s associate head coach, the same title he held under Perretta.

Start listing the reasons why Villanova is 28-6, hosting Cleveland State Saturday in the first round of the NCAA Tournament — it’s a long list, but you can’t leave out this man. A familiar face to Finneran Pavilion regulars, and a straight-talking voice within the program, working from a space that adjoins the head coach’s office. Just a bit of a different role these days.

Easy to think because Dillon, Villanova’s third-year head coach, played and coached under Perretta, everything stays the same. That’s discounting Dillon’s 17 seasons as Drexel’s head coach. Dillon teams have always prided themselves on defense. No need to out-source the task of coaching it.

“Harry was always much more interested in the offensive side,” Mullaney said on Selection Sunday, sitting inside the Pavilion before the NCAA bracket was revealed. “I’ve actually done more offensive stuff with Denise than I ever did with Harry.”

Mullaney had been head coach at St. John’s for 12 seasons and was the Big East’s Coach of the Year himself in 1990-91. Being under the radar doesn’t mean sitting around quietly waiting for the paycheck. What’s Mullaney’s style of offering information?

“He’ll walk right in here, ‘Hey, here’s a couple of things I saw,’ " Dillon said, sitting in her office last week. “I think his conversations with the players individually are so on point.”

For his part, Mullaney said, he always feels free to make his points, that the staff under Dillon is good about hashing things out, all contributions are welcomed. He’d had a lot of day-to-day responsibilities late in Perretta’s tenure as health issues cropped up.

The first season under Dillon, Mullaney said, he did have to pick up some of the new drills and X and O terminology. “It was like I was learning Greek for a while,” he said. He felt almost like a consultant, on the outside looking in until he got his feet wet. A weird pandemic year. All feels normal now.

“You want to talk about a reset button, he does it better than anyone,” Dillon said. “Realizing it’s a different team each season, so what are we going to do with this group? Recognizing that the overall system and style works, but each player is different.”

Maybe the biggest reset, Mullaney suggested, is at practice.

“Harry was always big on scrimmaging,” Mullaney said. “You would scrimmage 85 percent of practice. His belief was, you’ve got to play. Denise is more drill-oriented. Breakdown drill here, breakdown drill here. We might scrimmage 10 percent of practice. It’s just interesting that you can have success a number of different ways.”

You could wonder if Mullaney leaves heavy recruiting lifting to the younger assistants — “going on the road, he’s first in the gym, doesn’t leave until the last game,” Dillon said. “He doesn’t skimp on it.”

Mullaney said he used to work on Perretta to try to get involved with some highest-level recruits. Dillon already has that philosophy — “let’s give it a shot.” But Mullaney said he works to make sure they’re also involved with some next-level players “who can help us get better.”

It’s a fine line, always.

But let’s go back half a decade, to that forward from New York. After Vulin’s call, another coach called about Siegrist, even more emphatic — “You’d be crazy not to recruit her.”

“Typical Harry fashion, he goes up and watches Maddy, ‘Oh, she could help us a little bit,’” Mullaney said. “I go up, she gets like 35 and 20 rebounds. I said by accident she’ll score 1,500 and get 1,000 rebounds for us.”

He didn’t predict anything about being the nation’s leading scorer.

“She couldn’t shoot the three then,” Mullaney said.

If you show up at the Pavilion on Saturday, good luck trying to spot the weakness now in Siegrist’s first-team all-American arsenal. Just remember the thought that started it all.