Tough times for union painters.

If there's been any sector hammered in this recession, it's been construction, with, as the U.S. Labor Department reported Friday, 1.4 million jobs lost since the start of the recession, including 65,000 last month in the height of the building season.

But it's not only the economy that makes it challenging for someone such as James A. Williams, international president of one of the unions in the building trades.

With President Obama as an ally in the White House, Williams and other labor leaders see themselves as better able to influence policies and legislation on topics such as health care and the ability to organize workers into unions.

That's a plus for Philadelphia because many of the nation's labor unions are headed by former city residents, including Williams, general president of the International Union of Painters and Allied Trades.

With all that as a backdrop (or maybe a drop cloth), we asked Williams a key question. He didn't brush it off.

Question: When you go to someone's house, do you immediately check out the paint job?

Answer: I look at the people that do our printing, the people that sell us insurance, the vendors that, you know, make a living off of my members. I want to make sure that their homes are being painted by union people.

Q: So, if they invite you to their homes . . .

A: I'm looking. And I'm asking.

Q: How do you tell?

(At this point, Williams answers by walking over to the door and pointing out where the skinny part of the doorjamb meets the wall. It takes skill to paint that slender side wood. An unskilled painter will use one coat and be finished, but a skilled union painter will readily put on the usual two coats, he says.)

A: I can tell right away. And I look at the mirrors. We install mirrors.

Q: How would you notice?

A: Usually a bathroom mirror is 24 inches wide.

Q: And?

A: So you're not going to hit two studs. Studs are every 16 inches. You've got to make sure the mirror is safely installed on that wall and not just installed in the drywall - not wham, bam, thank you ma'am.

Q: Now that we have that straightened out, how has the recession affected you?

A: About a year ago, we saw it coming. Money froze up. Housing was down. We had about 20 percent unemployment.

Q: How did your union respond?

A: We prepared. If a member's out of work for six months, he pays one dollar a month. It used to be you paid full dues. But when a guy's out of work, he's got to put money on the table for the food. Why would you bang a guy when he's down?

So instead of having the big drop in membership, this way here, we utilize them for political events, we can keep them informed on various things and still keep them as active members.

Q: Did the recession hit you hard early, or was it delayed?

A: We finish the buildings after [others] start them. It didn't hit us as soon as it did other people.

Q: What about when things start to improve?

A: It'll be a longer pipeline for us.

Q: Are you seeing any signs that the stimulus package is helping your members?

A: It's starting to affect us.

Q: Your Web site says there is going to be work for industrial painters.

A: Yeah, on the bridges and refineries. On the books, there's $88 billion worth of refinery work. Now that's not all painting. But, you have the oil sands in Alberta and they're going to refine it in southern Illinois. They're going to pipe it all the way down.

Q: And those pipes have to be painted?

A: Coated, painted, and all the pipes are color-coded. So that's work for our people.

Q: What about other infrastructure stimulus funding?

A: It's a lot of money. The Brooklyn Bridge was just let. The painting contractor bid $249 million. That's paint, people, scaffolding.

Q: How about locally?

A: There's at least $175 million in bridge work right around here. I don't know how many painters that would equate to - but quite a lot of painters.

Age: 59.

Job: General president, reelected

Aug. 24.

International Union of Painters and Allied Trades.

Hometown: Philadelphia.

Now lives: Annapolis, Md., and Holland, Bucks County.

Family: Wife, Gerrie. Daughters, Aimee, a nurse, and Christine, a certified public accountant. Two sons, James, painters' union organizer at headquarters, and Dan, journeyman glazier, currently unemployed. Five grandchildren.

Hobby: Fishing, caught 35 in one day last month.

On the nightstand: "Boardwalk Jungle," by Ovid Demaris, about Atlantic City.

Why: Williams was a union business agent when the casinos were being built.

Career ladder: Began as a union apprentice glazier in 1968. Rose through ranks to become president of Local 252 in Philadelphia in 1975. Elected as general president in 2002.

In the family: Father and grandfather were both union leaders.

Most important issue facing unions: A unified labor movement. "Divided doesn't do it for us."

Biggest leadership accomplishment: In a time when some unions are struggling financially, Williams' union is among the most solvent on a per-capita basis.

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Represents: Painters, drywall finishers, glaziers, wall-coverers, floor-covering installers, glass workers, sign-makers, convention decorators, display workers.

Membership: 133,997.

Leader: James A. Williams, general president.

Headquarters: Washington.

In the region: District Council 21.

Represents workers in eastern Pennsylvania, Delaware, and New Jersey in 18 locals.

Leader - Harry T. Williams, secretary-treasurer and business agent (no relation to James).

Membership - 5,614.

Headquarters - Northeast Philadelphia.

Source: International Union of Painters and Allied Trades, U.S. Department of LaborEndText