Joseph Brock, East Coast Labor Relations

Joseph Brock grew up in a union household, eating hot dogs on the picket line and tagging behind his father, a top Pennsylvania Teamster official who now is retired.

Brock, a mechanic by trade, eventually became president of Local 830, the largest Teamster local in Philadelphia. Local 830 represents 4,000 drivers and warehouse workers in soda- and beer-bottling and distribution.

In 2006, he challenged longtime incumbent Daniel Grace for Local 830's top job, secretary-treasurer.

It was a nasty race. After Brock lost by 37 votes, he was no longer a union officer. That election is now a matter of litigation.

Last year, Brock, 47, started his own management-consulting company, East Cost Labor Relations L.L.C. He works with companies that want to keep unions out or improve their union relations.

Because companies fear unions, Brock says that in some ways he is a more effective worker advocate as a management consultant than he was as a union president. For example, he can sometimes get a bad manager fired.

These days, he is definitely jaded about unions.

If they want to be relevant, he said, they need to find new ways to reach workers while shaking off a culture of complacency and corruption.

What attracted you to unions?

My father taught me to defend people less able to defend themselves. A lot of companies were - and are - taking advantage of employees.

Was there anything about unions that came as a disappointment to you?

No matter how zealous you were in advocating for working people, [union] officers today are measured based on their ability to appease their superiors.

Which superiors - union or management?

Union. If you're not going to get the wink from the people above, you're not going to win an election.

Why not?

I've seen, in the Teamsters union - I hesitate to use the word corruption, because it conjures up thoughts of Mafia. Truth be told, I never witnessed anything like that. I did witness fixed elections, fixed ratification votes.

After you lost the Local 830 election, what did you do?

I started getting calls from people with consulting companies. And I would never talk to them. A labor-relations consultant, as I knew it, was a union buster.

Union buster?

When I was union president, I saw two kinds of union busters. Some come in to slash and burn. Fire the organizer, cut the head off the dragon, do whatever to beat the employees. Another kind would try to figure out why [employees wanted a union]. When I would hear that the company had hired the Labor Relations Institute, I knew the employees were going to get the carrots instead of the stick, which is why I agreed to talk when they called me.

How did it go?

I didn't believe them at first. They told me that you can actually constitute more change in the workplace from this end than you could as an officer of the union. I found it to be true.

Give me an example.

When I was president of the local, when I went to Coca-Cola [bottling company management] and I said, "You know what? Your warehouse manager is disrespectful to the employees, and these employees [are] underpaid - look at the surveys. They would tell me, 'Don't tell us how to manage our business.' "

And now what?

When companies bring me in, and I agree to take it, they have to be willing to make the changes necessary if they want to keep the union out. And I haven't lost yet.

What kind of changes?

You need to treat your employees with respect, give them a say in the workplace, and pay them fairly. If not, you're only fooling yourself. Because you can cut the head off the dragon and you'll probably win this organizing drive. The problem is, the dragon always grows a new head. A year later, the union will be back. I won't be.

Given the fact that management pays you, why should working people trust you?

They don't have to trust me. The first thing I tell them is, when your employer tells you that it's not in your best interest as employees to join a union, you have to look at that with a grain of salt. They're biased against them. I also tell them that the union is not the best source of information because they stand to make money on the basis of your joining. You need to find out for yourself what's true. One of the first things I tell employees is, if I was a worker today, I'd probably look for that union job.

That sounds like an endorsement. But you've said workers don't understand exactly what unions can and can't do.

The unions want to get a contract ratified.

What's wrong with that?

Of course, it's a worthy aim. But they don't get a penny in dues until they get a contract. While they'd much rather bring back a nice, big, fat, happy contract, if they can't get that, Plan B will certainly go into effect.

What's the future for unions?

Sometimes people make the argument that unions have created their own demise by getting all these good things for workers. I don't believe that for a second. One fertile area [for unions] would be employment at-will. When employees [are] working in an at-will situation, they can get fired for any reason. And unions should be much more involved with the health-care crisis in this country.

How do your Teamster friends view what you're doing?

Not one of them has turned their back on me.

Maybe some people would say, "This guy is disgruntled."

Yeah, and I think that's fair. I was disgruntled. [Now,] I found a niche that allows me to feed my family and to advocate for working people.

What does your dad say?

I think if you ask my father, he'd tell you he's very proud of me.

Joseph Brock.

47.

None.

President of Teamsters Local 830 until 2006.

Management consultant.

President, East Coast Labor Relations L.L.C., in affiliation with the Labor Relations Institute.

Northeast Philadelphia.

Delran.

Wife, Kelly Brock, a nurse; daughter, 9, and son, 4.

Coaches his children's teams. "They're still young enough that I can make a difference."

Contact staff writer Jane M. Von Bergen at 215-854-2769 or

» READ MORE: jvonbergen@phillynews.com

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