Philly DA candidates Larry Krasner and Patrick Dugan continue to throw insults at second public debate

District Attorney Larry Krasner, in the second public debate of the race for district attorney, continued to try and paint his Democratic challenger as a clandestine conservative — tying former judge Patrick Dugan to local Republicans and the former head of the city’s police union, and at one point, nearly calling him a racist.

Dugan, in turn, called Krasner a liar and a bully who quickly resorts to name-calling anytime someone disagrees with him. Krasner, he said, is soft on crime, and Philadelphians have suffered for years because of it.

The arguments and unpleasantries exchanged Thursday night in the first Center City forum mirrored those traded last week in a gloves-off start to the campaigns ahead of the May 20 primary election.

Krasner, the city’s progressive top prosecutor who is seeking a third term, sought to convince the audience that Philadelphians are “safer and freer” than they were eight years ago — the number of people in the city’s jail is down, and after a record-breaking spike in shootings during Krasner’s first term, gun violence has now reached near-historic lows.

Dugan, who served as a Municipal Court judge in Philadelphia for nearly two decades, focused on Krasner’s leadership, pointing to the low retention rate of new prosecutors during his first term, and saying any reduction in crime the city is now experiencing is thanks to the new mayor and police commissioner, not Krasner’s policies. He worked to portray himself as a centrist who believes in second chances, but who would crack down on gun possession and retail theft cases, areas where Krasner’s office has struggled.

Here are highlights from the evening:

At last week’s forum, Krasner asked Dugan whether he supports President Donald Trump.

“Are you kidding?” Dugan replied. “I categorically denounce Donald Trump and his policies. The guy’s a nut. I mean, come on.”

Krasner kept at it Thursday. He said Dugan was once seen “bear-hugging John McNesby when he was the head of the FOP and defending the visible wearing of Nazi tattoos.”

“Oh, Larry,” Dugan said. “You’re such a liar. Don’t you say that to me.”

Dugan’s campaign said he never hugged McNesby.

The candidates were asked what action they would take “to protect the city and its residents from possible illegal actions by the federal government.” Dugan said he was not sure what, realistically, local officials could do beyond public demonstrations.

Krasner said that indicated Dugan doesn’t want to intervene, and pointed to how the city’s conservative groups have signaled support for the former judge in recent weeks.

“My opponent seems to be getting loving words on social media from Philadelphia’s Republican Party. What do you think that means in the context of, ‘I don’t know what we’re going to do’?”

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On more than one occasion, Krasner stopped just short of calling Dugan a racist.

Dugan said he saw firsthand how many of the young prosecutors in Krasner’s office were inexperienced and struggling in court, and said Krasner failed to train them. Many of the attorneys Krasner recruited from out of state and Ivy League law schools eventually left, he said, so Dugan said he would focus on recruiting locally to attract attorneys who will be invested in Philadelphia for years.

Krasner said he has worked to diversify his staff and hire people from all states and backgrounds, lawyers who are now “being maligned by a judge who sits in misdemeanor court.”

“The judge wants us just to recruit in Philadelphia. ... Which HBCU law schools are in Philadelphia or nearby judge? Who’s that? Because there’s six of them. And if your point is we shouldn’t go to any historically black college and university law schools, then you’re making your point.”

Dugan groaned and interjected.

“Don’t call me a racist, Lar! Don’t call me racist! Don’t you twist my words. Don’t you dare!”

Dugan addressed it again later and defended himself and his record, pointing to his blended family of multiple races.

“You like to call people names. Who else does that? In another world, if we were sitting here on a couch somewhere else, there might be a different kind of problem to call me a racist like that,” he told Krasner.

Dugan’s campaign has resurfaced a long-standing issue for Krasner: the outstanding real estate tax bills on a Center City building of which Krasner is a part owner.

The district attorney has for years held a 40% stake in a holding group, called Tiger Building LP, which owns a brownstone at 1221-23 Locust St. and owes more than $139,000 in taxes on the building, which is assessed at a value of $3.46 million.

That amount includes more than $48,000 in taxes owed this year, which are not due until the end of this month. City records show the group has been behind on taxes periodically since at least 2014, and faced numerous liens and judgments filed by the city, the school district, and the Center City District over the last 10 years.

The issue didn’t come up during the forum, but Dugan’s campaign handed out fliers to attendees calling Krasner a “millionaire who doesn’t pay his taxes.”

As district attorney, Krasner earns a base salary of $182,184 a year, according to city payroll records.

Anthony Campisi, a spokesperson for Krasner’s campaign, said the district attorney is one of many people invested in the property. He and the other owners have been “in payment plans for several years to address its outstanding tax liability, and the corporation has been making regular payments toward that liability.”

In many ways, Dugan and Krasner share many of the same opinions on criminal justice issues. Both believe in expanding diversion programs, addressing bail reform, and examining questionable old convictions.

Toward the end of the night, Krasner tried to soften his tone, complimenting the judge’s work in launching a court for veterans and saying he agreed with many of Dugan’s rulings in cases over the years.

Still, he said, Philadelphia “cannot afford to have another DA who’s driven by ambition, who is willing to do more than they should and cross lines in order to win cases.”

Dugan didn’t accept the half-compliment. He said he believes in term limits for district attorneys, and Krasner’s time was up.

“I do restorative justice. I do rehabilitative justice. But people have to be accountable. We can do both at the same time,” he said.

A third forum hosted by the National Coalition of 100 Black Women is scheduled for Sunday at 1:30 p.m. at Mount Carmel Baptist Church in West Philadelphia.